In today’s show, Richard sits down with Sean McIntyre, Alex Summers, and Jane Buchan, to talk about what’s needed to become a Goldmine Area Expert in the world of property. What exactly it is, and why it’s the first place to start for all serious property investors. Learn these fundamentals to get ahead of the rest of the pack!
- What exactly is a Goldmine Area Expert in the world of property, and why you need to become one…
- What size of area should you start with? Learn what factors to consider and how to build from the ground up…
- The top things you’re looking for, and why you must learn these…
- How and where to find and lean on the experts in their field when it comes to success in property…
- Crunching the numbers. Take the emotion out and understand exactly how to make those do-or-die decisions…
- Finding the juiciest deals on and off the market…
- Mistakes and lessons learned by our guests. Learn from them so you don’t make yours…
- Sean McIntyre
Connect with Sean on LinkedIn
Connect with Sean on Facebook
- Jane Buchan
Connect with Jane on LinkedIn
Connect with Jane on Facebook
- Alex Summers
Connect with Alex on LinkedIn
Connect with Alex on Facebook
- Richard Swan
Connect with Richard
LINKS AND RESOURCES
- ALG Property Academy.
- ALG Property Network.
- Property Protege 12 Month Intensive.
- Catch-up and subscribe through iTunes.
Richard: Hello and welcome to today’s episode of This Week In Property. I’m your host Richard Swan and in today’s show we are going to be tackling the subject of Goldmine Area Expert, a very fancy title. Now to get stuck into that topic, let’s find out who are guests are today. We have from the world of ALG Mr Sean McIntyre, hello Sir.
Richard: Good Man, good to have you here and two other legends in the property empire world, they’re giving me nods of approval, we have Alex Summers, good morning Sir.
Alex: Good morning.
Richard: We all good today?
Richard: Excellent and your much better half, the lovely Jane Buchan.
Jane: I’m glad you said that Richard, nice to see you.
Richard: She’s got her coffee, she’s ready to rock and roll, we’ve got a nice sound effect at the back here with a nice leaking gutter, I don’t know if the listeners can pick up on that?
Alex: I’m glad you through that in there.
Richard: We should maybe just burst into out refurbs episode, properties falling apart and stuff. That’s typical rainy Glasgow. Right let’s get our teeth into this one, Goldmine Area Expert, very fancy. Alex first up, what on earth is that? What would in the world of property, how would you kind of describe or start to tackle the idea of it because loads of listeners, loads of different experiences in property, guys in for 35 years, people listening that just want to start and they might not have a clue where to start, how to start.
So if we say to them a good thing is maybe becoming A Goldmine Area expert, an expert in your Goldmine Area, what are we telling them? How would you describe that to someone?
Alex: Okay, in simple terms I think it’s really just being aware of your local area that you are specifically targeting and knowing the area inside out and it doesn’t have to be a massive area, your local can be small-ish obviously as you get more experienced you can expand on that but at the start you know a few thousand areas within the area and just getting to know the area, the streets, the prices, you know how much does a two bedroom cost or a three bedroom so that when anything comes up you’re on the ball right away, you know how much exactly that it’s worth, how much it could be worth to you and basically you can work your magic.
Richard: And find those deals and take it further.
Alex: Yeah, absolutely.
Richard: So Jane is it more of a kind of gut level, an instinct level that you’ve built up, it’s not just in the head I’ve got such and such or I’m a computer, I’ve got these three spreadsheets. Being a Goldmine Expert is it a case that you’re able to [clicks fingers] yeah there’s a potential in that deal or someone that’s talking to me just now about this two bed flat, I can feel that might work, is it that kind of level?
Jane: I think it’s a mixture of both and it is for me and certainly from when I first started out it was more data lead actually. I had a spreadsheet, I plugged in near enough every property that came up within our Goldmine Area, I plugged it into our numbers spreadsheet and I built up a data set of what does a walk-in condition two bed flat in that street go for, what does a three bed in that street go for and what I actually did to get to know it better as well is I actually went out and I viewed walk-in condition properties in my local area to get a feel for what is a walk-in condition, what does it look like so that I know for sure and then I keep an eye on that and see what it goes for.
Jane: So I start off with building up a data set and building up my experience but then over time it becomes a gut level reaction when you just know when you see something.
Richard: But you’ve got to train yourself? You’ve got to do that learning and turn it from the mind into a body, the gut instinct thing, right okay and that’s another good throw away tip you did there for listeners that you’ve went to walk-in condition places with no thought at all about buying it or going for it because we are looking for good deals, we’re looking for discounts, etc but you actually wanted to feel and see what walk-in condition meant other than just a walk-in condition written down on a bit of paper.
Richard: Right, that’s a great tip. Sean, Alex was talking about area, sizes, etc. He had a throw away line, I think it was a thousand houses, would you go along with that? Would you advise listeners to do a specific distance? Is it the houses? How should we start with an area?
Sean: Yeah for me when I started with my area I went very small, like a quarter of a mile radius, that’s kind of where I started because even within that you’re going to get a lot of streets and as you get used to the figures, the end values of the properties and you know what properties are selling for then you can start to expand that, you can go from a quarter mile up to half a mile up to a mile.
Richard: Right, how long has it taken that journey to happen?
Sean: It can take a long time.
Richard: Can it?
Sean: Yeah I mean a good few months you should be a good mile, two miles but again it depends how long you spend getting that data that Jane was talking about and also you should be doing half an hour to an hour every day getting those figures in your head so it becomes instinctual, becomes that gut feeling that Jane is talking about because you need to know the streets, you need to know the areas that are good and the areas that are bad. The benefit of working in an area that you know and you’ve grown up in, I mean everybody knows the bad streets, everybody knows the places that you don’t go, that you don’t want to live in there but when you’re going into a Goldmine Area that’s outwith your location that you’ve grown up in then you need to start small and you need to stand out from that.
Richard: And take it from that point? Okay and we want to know this property, that property. What types are you guys running with? So for example, I need to know one bed flats or I need to know three bed houses, how deep and how detailed can youse go? You know for yourself Jane, when you were starting your spreadsheets and stuff, was it every single type? Only certain types?
Jane: I probably wouldn’t bother in my own experience, haven’t bothered too much focusing on the one beds because for a start in our initial Goldmine Area there wasn’t a huge amount of one beds but also for the strategies that we were following at the time which was packaged deals, there’s much more interest in two beds, three beds because they’re much more easy to rent out, much more easy to resell.
Richard: Is it the same at the top as well? You wouldn’t care what a five bedroom mansion was like, you know is there also a ceiling there? You wouldn’t touch them specifically?
Jane: Again in our Goldmine Area to begin with, there weren’t many, there’s a lot of three beds, there’s a lot of three bed cottage flats in our initial Goldmine Area but as we’ve expanded out and as we’ve actually increased the radius of the Goldmine Area we are actually moving into areas where there are those type of properties and we’ve kind of changed, not changed our strategy but we’ve expanded and added to the strategies that we work as well. So we aren’t just focusing on packaged deals, we’re actually looking at Buy-To-Flips, we are actually looking at our own projects, we’re actually sourcing to order, all these sort of things which mean you actually need to know more, your Goldmine Area becomes wider and as a result you need to know the different numbers for probably a wider variety of properties.
Richard: Right but you’re still sticking to your own criteria as an investor, is that the deal? You become the expert, roughly but you personally you still stick to your own criteria of these are the deals I’m doing, is that kind of juggling act that you’re doing?
Jane: Well we have our own criteria for ourselves that we work with lots of different investors who have lots of different criterias for themselves and you know have lots of different ideas about what a great investment is, so we tailor our offering to what our investors are looking for.
Alex: In particular just now as well, Jane is saying that we stick to the one bedroom or sorry the two bedroom and three bedrooms but I know she is telling fibs there.
Richard: You’re causing controversy there, I love it.
Alex: Right now we’re on the verge of closing a deal which is a one bedroom.
Richard: Oh really?
Alex: But the thing about you know having the knowledge that we do, it’s got the potential to be converted to a two.
Richard: Ah right fantastic.
Alex: So we are adding more value, so it’s good to know and to be able to see those deals as well and pick up on them and as Jane mentioned about, and you need to keep jumping here. She’s also said about we’ve expanded our Goldmine Area, now we’ve expanded it a wee bit to probably all of Scotland which is just a wee bit bigger on what we planned on.
Richard: So that’s not really a quarter of a mile radius.
Alex: No, I think we kind of went a bit outwith it there but yeah that’s where we’re at, at the moment.
Jane: I think what Alex was saying there about the one to two bed conversion, that is the benefit of becoming the local expert, because that property, I’m not say that you have your Goldmine Area has to be your local area where you live but it just so happens that ours was and that property is basically – hold on I’m not very good with my distances – probably a few hundred yards.
Alex: It’s maybe about 150 metres.
Jane: Yeah, away from where we actually stay.
Richard: Ah right.
Jane: So, in our specific Goldmine Area there is that very clear differentiation between the really nice bit and the really not so nice bit and the thing is that it’s so close together that if you weren’t a local expert you could actually get confused by what it is that you’re looking at and what the end value could potentially be. I’m very comfortable with the end value of this property that we are speaking about.
Jane: But if you didn’t know the area, you probably wouldn’t even look at it or consider it.
Richard: Excellent. Now Sean you teach a lot of people on the Protege program that ALG gives through their academy. How do they know, what sort of tools can they use to get to know those numbers? So we’ve talked about why we should get to know them and we can have this instinct, gut reaction, oh that can be a conversion or this going in walk-in price or it’s going to be such and such. What can we do when we are starting out? How can we learn? What sorts of tool sets do you teach people?
Sean: The very first thing that I started on was Rightmove.
Sean: Just put in the postcode of the area and without doing a video podcast I couldn’t give you a feeling of what it does, it’s something that you need to dive into and immerse yourself in and find out all the wee things it can do in terms of, you can specify a particular area that you want to look at, you can actually draw that area out on a map, on the computer and then you can look at all the recent sold prices.
Sean: So there’s Rightmove for that, Zoopla does something similar but I prefer using Rightmove because it pulls a lot of the information from the land registry as well. So it means you can tap into all the recent sales of a particular property, can see how many times it’s sold in the last ten years and everything as well. So for me that’s where I started and you get a good idea of this is an area I want to invest in or these prices are too low or too high for me, so I’m going to look somewhere else but once you’re getting to grips with the prices as Jane said, go out and view walk-in condition properties, you need to go out and physically see them, you need to go out and speak to estate agents, that’s where you’re going to get a lot of information as well, is when you’re actually on the ground, in the property yourself and seeing it for yourself. But Rightmove is a great tool to use, it really is.
Richard: It’s your main one and is there any other portals you play around with or cross check or cross reference.
Sean: Yeah so Rightmove, Zoopla, I use the home.co.uk as well, that one is really good if you are more like Jane in terms of the data and pulling in figures, that will give you a lot of information in terms of the average time the property is going to sit on the market for. A two bed in this property takes 70 days to sell, a three bed takes 50 days to sell, so depending on how itty-bitty you want to get with it you can dive into that and again the thing about Rightmove as well as giving you the sold prices it will also give you the rental income as well that you can expect, so you can start to look at things like that and then you can balance that up, obviously in Scotland you’ve got the LHA you’ve got that on the website so you can find out you know what your rental income is going to be, you know it’s pretty much guaranteed at that price, obviously private rents you can tailor that to yourself and it can go a wee bit higher.
Sean: But yeah that’s pretty much the ones that I would use.
Richard: So being an expert, we’re covering ourselves for sale prices but we’re also covering ourselves for knowing off the top of your head or quite instinctively the rental you can get as well and it’s not just the numbers, it’s the actual demand as well that you need to become an expert in?
Sean: Yeah, I mean that’s something that a lot of people will forget in terms of that’s a great flat, we know we can get £600 a month but you put it on the market and it’ll sit there for three or four weeks empty. If you’ve got a Buy-To-Let you want as little void periods as you can possibly have, you need to make sure that the demand is there and again that comes down to just doing your research within your Goldmine Area and going out and speaking to the agents and getting a feel for it, if it’s not somewhere that you live yourself that you know the area already then you need to go out and tap into the other experts that are there and get information from them.
Richard: Right, now Alex you threw in a great example of what you’re running just now, a one to two bed conversion, how on earth do I become an expert on that? I can look on Rightmove and see that three beds are going to for £95,000 or whatever but how do I get that knowledge? How do I become that expert?
Alex: Well if you’ve got a few quid, you can come and talk to me and we can Joint Venture together. Basically it’s like Sean said going out to the flats, look at them, look at the floor plans or on Rightmove or whatever but basically getting out there and looking, being creative and looking at spaces within the properties to see if it’s possible. I tend to go to a lot of flats, right and Jane will vouch for this as well, I go to a lot of flats and they are already dead wee but I want to squeeze in even more, you know I’ll get another room in that kitchen, move that there and move that there.
Richard: You’re trying to create those Japanese pod hotels.
Alex: I try to squeeze in as much as possible but then I show Jane and kind of give me into trouble, you know don’t be silly. So basically, getting out to view them, getting a feel for how small is small, you know you don’t want to obviously make it ridiculously small. So just go round viewing, measuring up maybe as well.
Jane: That’s what I was going to say, have your tool box, have your measuring tape, make sure your phone is there with your charge on it so you can take a video that way you can remember what you’ve seen.
Richard: Right so you guys are doing this as well? Brilliant tips, right okay. What else is in that category? Anything else we need to worry about? Have you done your homework with what Sean was talking about with Rightmove back at home and then when you’re in the place it’s a completely different thing you’re running with? You’re physically moving around, you’re taking pictures, you’re taking videos, you’re measuring, is that the kind of different mindset once you’re in there?
Jane: Yeah I think we’re lucky because we’re working together as well so Alex is out in the field a lot and he’ll do all that sort of stuff, the heavy lifting if you like and doing all the viewing and all the running about and then I’ll have the video and I’ll work through the video and I’ll already have done some sort of, I’m probably going into Due Diligence a little bit but I already have done some numbers, we’ll have a fell for what the end value could be and stuff like that and then we’ll verify all that with the home report and the video that Alex brings back as well and also any measurements and stuff that he takes while he is there.
Richard: Now I’m going to pull on the thread of Walk-In condition, we’ve established the fact that we want to know what it is, want to know what the value is but that’s not what we’re chasing, we’re going to chase something much less than that, maybe lesser condition, maybe some kind of inheritance that has been left for months and months and the family is now selling it. So part of that figures Alex is going to be, I need to refurb this or I need to improve this, how do I become an expert in that in my area? What’s the kind of process there?
Alex: So getting a good builder, getting a good builder, it’s just really knowing the numbers again which is all down to Jane. What we’ve done now, is we’ve actually systemised, Jane systemised a spreadsheet as well that just basically, all the numbers get plugged in to know exactly how much it would be for getting it fully plastered, fully decorated, a full rip out. To get to know these numbers yourself, you’ve really got to speak to some trades guys and the builder and see exactly how much that’s going to be because all builders are different and some are going to charge a wee bit more, a wee bit less or whatever. It’s having these guys at the end of the phone that can come and price up for you and basically plug them in, plug the numbers in and just keeping on top of it as well. Because prices change as well.
Richard: Well exactly, that’s right. You’re not just becoming an expert and that’s you, it’s going to continue is it? It’s a journey that just keeps going?
Alex: Aye absolutely, it’s forever changing and you’ve just got to keep on top of it, if you don’t it could end up being quite expensive, but by keeping on top of it and knowing your numbers and with the likes of me, I’ll take videos and I’ll see anything within the properties that I got to, I see really what needs done and through doing these videos, I speak all the way through these videos so that I can give Jane every single bit of information that’s possible as I walk through nice and slowly, you know if it needs new doors, wiring, whatever. I will then send it to Jane and Jane just plugs the numbers in.
Alex: And keeps on top of it so we know exactly how much that refurb cost is going to be and then obviously that whole price gets plugged in with the rest of the numbers to see whether it’s a deal and we can offer.
Richard: Take it from there.
Sean: The thing is, you’ll get to that stage in time as well. A lot of people want to jump the gun, you know in terms of this refurb is going to cost £13,000, they’ve got no idea where those costs are coming from.
Richard: Just pulling that number out of the air.
Sean: You’ll get to the stage where or the stage that you want to be at is when you’re out viewing a property yourself, you can pretty much price it up but you’ll only be able to do that off the back of working with your builder and building that relationship with them, whether that means getting them to come out and view a property with you that you’re maybe looking to buy. What I would advise is, don’t do that too often, you know if builders are busy and they should be because you want a good one, then they’ve not got the time to constantly come out and look at every single property you’re looking at because for every 30-40 properties you’re going to view, you’ll maybe only buy one or two at the most.
So for me it was a case of doing what Alex was saying there about taking the video and then maybe even sitting with your builder and going listen, I’ve got these three properties that I viewed, is there anything that you’re seeing that i’ve not spotted there or would you need to come out and get another look and over time you’ll get to learn how they price and where they get their costs from and at that point is where you can go in and price a property yourself and be confident that you’re going to be pretty much on the money with it.
Richard: So these videos, that’s a cool idea then to do that? Not just for yourself, not just for working in a great team but to also not waste a builder’s time? You can pass them to them and say can you have a quick look, I’m thinking this, this and this and then if they spot anything they can come back to you?
Richard: Brilliant, so let’s tick off that power team then, these kind of people we’re using to become the Goldmine Area Expert anyway. So you mentioned builders, so we know about that. You touched upon estate agents, you’re kind of building relationships there? Letting agents, did you mention, so that’s from a rental position. Anything else we need to know about, does that cover it? Are you into legals or solicitors at any stage to become the expert or does that not matter?
Sean: At that point, not really. The only other one I would say is getting in a good surveyor. Especially when you’re in Scotland and you’ve got the benefits of having a home report as well for every property but there may be the odd moments where you just can’t find good comparables or you can’t be exact on how much this property is going to be worth and be 100% confident on it. If you’ve got a relationship with a surveyor there that you’ve been using for some of your recent projects as well, they know they’re getting business from you then it’s sometimes just worth a phone call just to say I’m looking at this property here, I’m struggling to find any comparables that can give me an exact figure, if you had to come out and view this and it was walk-in condition, what do you think you could get for it and he’ll be able to guide you on that as well.
Jane: I think that’s a really good point that you’ve raised and that’s something that I’ve done just recently where we’ve got a great relationship with an estate agent and letting agent in one and they don’t have any vested interest in the property that I was speaking to them about but I do know that they know the area inside-out. So I got them to give me a second opinion about what I was looking at, although there was lots of data, lots of information it was still, I felt, I know they’re an expert, almost an expert, it is almost their Goldmine Area. They’ve sold some really great properties there recently, so I got her to give me a second opinion and I’m really chuffed that she agreed with all the numbers.
Richard: Ah brilliant.
Jane: So that was really nice, but I think that’s one thing that is so important is having a great power team, you spoke about it, about having a great builder and it’s maybe not specifically on your Goldmine Area but just to be successful.
Richard: Right, in general?
Jane: In general in property, It’s so absolutely key to have those good relationships and to build up your network because you never know when you’re going to need that help.
Richard: Yeah, to lean on that, cool. Now let’s paint a scenario, you had to start again from tomorrow, from scratch. What would you do differently? What do you think, is there big lessons that you’ve really learned, to go back to the drawing board and start all over again as Jane the Goldmine Area Expert, is there something, oh I wish at the start, I wish I had done such and such.
Jane: I don’t think so because I think what happened was I had the benefit of not really knowing anything different.
Richard: To begin with?
Jane: To begin with. So all I really knew was what we’d learned from going through the Protege course and working with ALG. So I just applied what I learned, I didn’t have my own ideas about how to do it, I just did.
Richard: So you were the blank canvas?
Jane: Yeah, so i went away and I set up a website exactly how I was advised, you know use a name that says what it does on the tin, you know glasgow home buyers which you know we went ahead and set it up and I actually just applied all the stuff that we had learned, we did the leafleting, you know Alex went round and put up a leaflet in every single shop.
Alex: Just stuck them everywhere.
Richard: So why are we doing this Alex? Because we’ve spoke about portals, we’ve spoke about our power team, leaning on these people. What is this with marketing and things like this, why are we doing that to become an expert, how is that helping us?
Alex: Okay so obviously you want to get the deals that are off market, you want to get the deals before they go to auction, before they go to market. You want to get the best deals and the only way to get to these best deals is through our marketing. I mean how is anybody going to know. I need to sell my house quick, I’ve inherited a property, whatever it is and I need to get shot of this, this property quickly, I’ve not got time to put it on Rightmove and go through the process there so how do I do that and then they maybe get our leaflet through their door or maybe drive down the street and see one of our boards up and on that it’s telling them you know ‘SELL YOUR HOUSE FAST’ and by doing that they contact us.
You’ve got to do this if you want the better deals, if you want to get the better deals, you’ve got to get the marketing out and we’ve found that by putting the marketing out the deals come, the deals come and it’s not been the deals that are, you know I think on Rightmove and these other portals you’ll get the odd one but to get the really good ones is through doing the marketing and bring them in and you funnel them into the website. So draw them in with the marketing, takes them to the website, they contact us, then we basically have a chat with them, qualify them, go out and see them and negotiate a half decent deal or something and not only negotiate a deal but something that works for them as well as us because we don’t want to be out there you know offering ridiculous deals, we want to do something that’s going to make the seller happy as well, makes them comfortable enough that they can let it go for a price that they are happy with and it works for us as well and for our investors.
Richard: So it’s a win win. So you’re almost becoming an expert in two areas, there’s this are that Joe public sees, Rightmove and anywhere else but through your marketing and those techniques you’re becoming an expert in what the real deals are in this area are as well that don’t normally get to Joe public, is that kind of fair to say?
Alex: Aye I think that would be.
Richard: A secret world that you’ve become the expert in and you’re grabbing these fantastic investments before they get up to the general public level.
Alex: Yeah I mean these ones come every time you know we get leads through, I mean it’s quite a few leads that come through the website, not everyone is a deal, there’s a lot of tyre kickers, people just wanting to know how much their property is worth or they’re just testing and using our knowledge but I don’t know the exact, maybe one in eight or something that comes through is a potential deal.
Sean: I find jumping back to the question you asked Jane about what you would do different, I know for myself, in my experience the thing I would do different is that I would go out and speak to those estate agents, letting agents, etc earlier in my journey.
Richard: Earlier right.
Sean: A lot of people want to become the expert by themselves, if I just pretend to myself that I’m working and I’m sitting in the house and I’m doing my rightmove stuff because it’s comfortable and it’s easy it’s difficult to go in. I remember my first estate agent.
Richard: Do you?
Jane: I’m laughing because I remember Alex’s first experience of this. Remember you went out and you went to every estate agent. Remember that?
Richard: Did you?
Sean: But the thing is you have to do that, the first one you walk into, especially for me somewhat the same as Jane and Alex, I had no experience in property beforehand and I was just implementing the stuff that I had been taught from ALG and I walked into my first estate agent and I didn’t have a clue what to say, the guy was looking at me and he’s saying how can I help you, I’m thinking I don’t know, how can you help me?
Richard: Can you make me an expert please?
Sean: So I walked out of that one and I walked into the one that was three doors up and was a little bit better and I went to the next one and I got a little bit better until you walk in with an heir of confidence because you now know what you need, you know what you’re looking for and you’re wanting to let them know that you’re working in that area and that’s got two benefits if you do it early on, you’ll get more information quicker but also if you’re doing the stuff that Alex and Jane were talking about there in terms of your leafleting and getting your boards up and doing your own marketing to get deals that are off market then for those properties that don’t work for you or for your investors, if you’ve got an estate agent sitting there that’s looking for a referral you can go well listen I’ve got such and such a person here, I need a sell, can I get a referral fee from that and now off the beginning of your journey, you’re getting more information but you’re also getting a bit of income, which is cash flow, it’s the biggest thing that people need in the property journey.
Jane: You’re absolutely right, that’s been great and it’s actually like becoming a better, giving a better service to the clients that get in touch with you because you’re not just saying when they phone up, well I’m just thinking about selling, I’m just thinking about think about it and I’m just wondering how much it might be worth, you don’t just end the conversation there, you know you can actually monetise every enquiry because you can say well unfortunately we can’t help you but I know a fantastic estate agent that I can put you onto and you know it works for the client, it works for the estate agent and it works for you as well.
Richard: Exactly fantastic, do you remember those days, going round all the agents?
Alex: Yeah I remember the first one I walked into was actually a hairdressers, I didn’t have my glasses on.
Jane: It was actually like that, I think you gave the guy a big spiel about you know if you’ve got properties that aren’t selling and we can help with this and it turned out he was a letting agent not an estate agent.
Richard: Fantastic, right I’m going to be respectful of your time, that’s been superb, you’ve given loads away there, appreciate it. So I’m sure you got a lot out of that listeners and I would like to thank those guests that have given you all of those golden nuggets on the show today, we’ve had Sean, Alex and Jane. Now if you would like to connect to any of those guests all you have to do is go to thisweekinproperty.com and you can check out the show notes for the episode. Now you’ll be able to find there the contact details for all the guests if you want to hook up with them along with any of the links and resources that we’ve mentioned while we’ve been chatting. The two other links I want you to put down algpropertynetwork.com and that’s if you’re looking for high level networking events in your area and also if you’re just starting your property journey or you want to start it or you have started but you want to take it further head over to algpropertyacademy.com and check out the resources there. So that’s all for today, thanks very much for tuning in and we will see you in the next show.